One year and one week ago this week (January 10th 2018), I was contacted by a young lady who was an IVF Baby (now 35). This was in response to a blog post I had written titled Wrestling with the Ethics of IVF and Sperm donation. Click here to read that blog.
After some discussion, I invited the young lady to be a guest blogger and tell her story. So she wrote a blog titled: I am an IVF Baby and I am thankful I get to Live Life. Click here to read that blog.
As it had just passed a year since first posting the blog, I contacted Olivia and had a chat. She had recently read some of the comments on the Blog and on Social Media and emailed me a response. So I invited her to be a Guest Blogger again. Here are her thoughts:-
Hi again, Olivia here.
It’s one year on since I first posted the blog of my IVF story and the debate on social media continues to rage. I’ve been reading further comments on the IVF blog.
One of the issues with the debate; People don’t seem to understand that by opposing IVF, they are actually saying to those who are produced via IVF; I am more comfortable in my world, if you don’t exist.
We don’t say that to any other person, in any other situation. Regardless of origin of life.
These are not just the lives of children being discussed. There are IVF babies, who are now well and truly adults, walking among you.
For those who are a product of IVF & wished they weren’t, well, that was your only shot at life. It’s not a factory, you don’t get to choose how you are made- you live or you never were. There’s plenty of people who were not part of IVF who have daddy issues too. Trust God, keep walking. Let Him bring awesome people into your life.
As for being concerned about meeting a biological brother & wanting to marry them; I am so not concerned. It’s not a consideration and seems incredibly unlikely. There are limits on how many families men can donate sperm to and today, the process and records of who has donated are well documented and available to relevant parties.
In the grand scheme of life, how you came into being, is only a really small part of life. It’s certainly not on my mind everyday or week. God gives life, not man. Men only think they do. No one should be blaming their future on their past. IVF gives you a shot at life, that’s all. Regardless of your origins and circumstances in life, with God, you determine what your future and destiny holds. Do you embrace life & run with it or sit back & think it’s all over?
It was a cool thought in the comments where someone mentioned about Jesus’ lineage being Joseph, whose genetics Jesus did not have.
Thanks Olivia for being willing to share. I personally was moved by your comment.
One of the issues with the debate; People don’t seem to understand that by opposing IVF, they are actually saying to those who are produced via IVF; I am more comfortable in my world, if you don’t exist.
We don’t say that to any other person, in any other situation. Regardless of origin of life.
Food for thought.
Peter
Categories: Australian, Theology
peterpilt 
This is so cool, I love Olivia’s candid & forthright way of speaking about this sensitive (for some) issue. I’ve never been opposed to IVF, this blog has allowed me a new & fresher way of looking at it & YES, God gives life, not man!
Hmmmm! Food for thought indeed & to be quite honest at this point I am not sure what I think after reading Olivia’s post. One thing is for sure, I couldn’t think of anything worse than having to defend my life because of how I got here. But I am conflicted about babies being produced via ivf where that child misses out on a mother or a father as in SSM.
I remember my mother telling me how my brother would have been the first IVF baby if they hadn’t succeeded getting pregnant naturally in 1976. My parents had been trying for over 6 years to get pregnant, and because of mum’s history of PCOS and related infertility, she was already taking fertility treatments etc and apparently approved for the program. So not only his conception through IVF would have been a very real possibility, but also possibly my own.
From Matthew 1: Abraham was the father of Isaac, … Judah was the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez was the father of Hezron … Jesse was the father of David the king. David was the father of Solomon by Bathsheba who had been the wife of Uriah. Solomon was the father of Rehoboam, … Jacob was the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, by whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah.
In writing the genealogy of Christ, Matthew specifically mentions two sexual sin episodes recorded in the Bible that occurred in His family line without which the family line would naturally have been different. The first was Judah’s adultery with his daughter-in-law resulting in Perez and the second David’s adultery with Bathsheba and the subsequent murder of her husband which allowed them to marry and have Solomon.
Now I’ve written that to say that we know that a child is not responsible for the sins of their parents that led to their birth, and also to show that God choses to use people such as these in his plan for redemption just as He uses anyone else.
That said I’d like to address two things you say Olivia, firstly the second half of “I am more comfortable in my world, if you don’t exist.
We don’t say that to any other person, in any other situation. Regardless of origin of life.”
In Deut 23 we see that “no one of illegitimate birth” and “no Ammonite or Moabite” “none of their descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall ever enter the assembly of the Lord”. God is saying to Israel that because of certain people’s origin of life they are to be treated differently. Now I don’t know what that actually meant or how, if at all, it would/could apply in NT times, but we have here an example of the consequences of sin and a person’s origin of life carrying on for generations.
And if you’d been around long enough Olivia (and this is why we must study history) you’d know that we have in the past treated people differently based on their origin of life.
In the early 1900s the birth of an illegitimate person could not be registered. No birth certificate. No official record of their existence. Post WWII the newspapers reported concern with people’s morals as the illegitimacy rate was up to 5%. Well now it’s about 30% and no one bats an eyelid. In fact I’ve seen “Christians” announce on Facebook that they’re moving in together and other “Christians” “like” it.
A major change in attitude came about in the 60s with the, so called, sexual revolution, which was actually a sinful revolution. The sins of fornication and adultery became “acceptable” and so did illegitimacy. As you were born in the 90s (I think), this is your “normal” you grew up in. It was not always like that. It is like that now because of our sin.
Now Olivia to address “People don’t seem to understand that by opposing IVF, they are actually saying to those who are produced via IVF; I am more comfortable in my world, if you don’t exist.”
I’d put it this way. “By not supporting IVF, what I am actually saying to most of those who are produced via IVF, those born and those never born; I am very uncomfortable that you exist(ed) when you should not have, because you now have to spend eternity suffering in hell”.
From what you’ve said you’re OK Olivia, and by the grace of God going to heaven. Good. But consider someone in your position, in hell, suffering for eternity, how do you think they feel about IVF?
Adrian,
I wonder if you pride yourself on being offensive to people.
I know you are a Christian but any level of love for people is absent from your posts.
I asked you 6 months ago to cease commenting on my social media posts as I find you world view to be contrary to my biblical world view and frankly I find you offensive. You then informed me the reason you come across so toxic was due to a recently diagnosed medical condition. I would like to remind you that its probably best you do not make comments on my social media.
But seeing as you have, I feel compelled to point out the offensiveness of your most recent comments.
The comment you posted is on a blog where a woman, a real live Aussie Christian woman is talking about the circumstances of her conception, over which she had no control but now finds herself living life and seeing the unfolding plans and purposes of God for her life. I will digress from my main comment here to inform you that regardless of conception circumstances, no person, I repeat, no person is a surprise to God nor an invalid person. Psalm 139 which is an amazing picture of God putting together a person in the womb of their mother does not carry an asterisks of hey this Psalm is only relevant for people conceived when a loving married couple who actually want children conceive a child whilst engaging in love making in the missionary position whilst looking directly and lovingly into each other’s eyes.
You quote an Old Testament bible verse to promote your view and give legitimacy to the idea that some people don’t have the right to life or to indeed, as you quote it, the kingdom of heaven. You may or may not have heard but there is New Testament and whilst I will admit there are some difficult verses in the OT to reconcile with the loving God we see in the New Testament, suffice to say that God so loved the world that He gave His only son to suffer death that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life…..again what we don’t see here as in Psalm 139, are qualifications on a persons conception. In the Old Testament, for the first 11 chapters of Genesis we see a Universal God who is open to all. From Gen 11 to the end of the Old Testament we see God become a particularistic God whose focus is on the Nation of Israel only, to the brutal exclusion of all others….thus the scripture you have mentioned completely out of any historical or biblical context. I will say here for accuracy purposes that even in this brutal exclusion, there were exceptions like Rahab the harlot and Ruth….both of whom are in the lineage of Christ. I guess if you had anything to do with it, they would have been deemed non persons and excluded. From the beginning of Matthew to present day, God returns to a universalistic posture where he is open to relationship with all mankind. Again I don’t see any asterisk to the New Testament. I do however see a parallel between you and the disciples early on, when God was saying hey Jesus is not just for the Jews but also for the Gentiles and they were saying…surely not. They could not get their heads around the universalistic posture of Grace and the message of Jesus….That’s a little bit like you Adrian.
You then go on in your comments and blame the sinful sexual revolution of the 60’s for now legitimatizing people who you deem to be non people like IVF people. Headshaking moment Adrian. I just want to say, the lady in question, Olivia was born, through the aid of IVF into a loving couple and family who raised her as a godly person. She is now spirited filled and walks closely with God.
Let’s talk about Solomon and Solomon’s brother for a moment. David has a straight up lust filled sexual encounter with Bathsheba. She conceives and David does everything he can to cover it up. Ultimately organising the murder of Bathsheba’s husband who was also David’s friend and one of his Mighty Men. The baby is born and dies after 7 days. When it dies, David gets up from fasting and praying and makes the comment that he will see the baby again in the next life. Seeing we get a lot of our understanding about the character of God from the writings of David, its fair to put some weight on his comment about babies going to heaven. Certainly, David thought this baby, this affair, lust filled conceived baby, was in heaven.
Then David conceives again with Bathsheba and Solomon is born. Both Bathsheba and Solomon are in the lineage of Jesus. That’s got to mess with your head.
And the final point that I think you are being offensive about is saying that IVF babies are going to regret being born when they find themselves in hell because they haven’t chosen Jesus….well technically I would suggest everyone who finds themselves in hell will regret existing due to the sheer horror hell. To make this point to validate your position on IVF shows me you are clutching at straws. As I mentioned before, Olivia won’t experience that regret because she won’t find herself in hell so your point about this is moot.
I have taken the time to answer your comment not so much to educate you, but for Olivia so she knows the truth instead of being upset by narrow minded offensive comments such as yours.
I will be happy to see no further comments from you unless you temper the level of offensiveness in your comments.